Join Andreas Trojan and Stéphane Bancel at Davos 2026 to examine the cutting edge of cancer prevention and treatment, and where science still meets its boundaries.
At Davos 2026, oncologist Andreas Trojan and Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel argued that cancer care is entering an “immunology 2.0” era built on two insights: “cancer is a disease of DNA” and the immune system can be retrained to eliminate what it previously “missed.” Bancel explained how Moderna’s mRNA platform shifted from lower-risk rare diseases to vaccines, then to oncology after discovering injected mRNA drains to lymph nodes and expresses antigen in immune cells—an ideal mechanism for anti-tumor priming.
The centerpiece was individualized neoantigen vaccination. Tumor and normal DNA are sequenced and compared “letter by letter”; software selects 34 mutations, stitched into one mRNA construct manufactured “just for you” and delivered in roughly 30 days. In a randomized phase 2 melanoma study combining the vaccine with Keytruda, Moderna reported five-year data showing a “50% improvement in recurrence-free survival,” strengthening proof of concept ahead of phase 3 readouts and expansion into lung, kidney, bladder, gastric, and pancreatic cancers.
The speakers emphasized prevention and early detection—HPV, hepatitis, and a phase 2 EBV vaccine—plus growing promise of liquid biopsy. They also stressed access: cell-free, miniaturized manufacturing and automation could lower costs versus cell-based therapies, while shared-antigen vaccines may provide interim, scalable options for developing markets.
Hello and good morning, everybody. This is the session now about possibilities and limits of cancer care. A very welcome. I think the, take home message would be that we learn a lot about the latest research, emerging therapies and the promising cancer care, and of course, also about how to prevent cancer, to treat cancer and to detect cancer early using also machine learning, AI and the patient information in a very patient centered approach. Now. So my name is Andreas. I'm an oncologist by training from Zurich. I did a postdoc at the Dana-Farber Cancer Center in Massachusetts, Boston, Massachusetts, where I was basically involved in cancer immunology. And, I'm also co-founder of Mobile Health. This is a patient centered platform for digital recording of symptoms, outcome of patients. And that can be used for machine learning and predictive analytics and also for decision support. So I'm very proud and honored to welcome you, Stefan Marcel. He's probably everybody knows him here. Stefan was raised outside from Paris, but he went to Ecole Centrale in Paris. He did his first masters in engineering, then a master of chemical engineering at Minnesota University. And then he did an MBA at Harvard Business School, I think. And he had a number of very prestigious positions, as a board member, CEO and president of Biomérieux Collagen and Eli Lilly. And since 2011, he is the CEO of Moderna Therapeutics. This is a company, a biotech company in Boston that is going to do research and development of protein therapies based on a modern RNA technology. Thank you very much. And a very warm welcome. Thank you. My first question, I was I was raised 30 years ago, in cancer and cancer treatment. And at that time we had a handful of therapeutics, chemistry chemotherapeutics very toxic. They would eventually prolong the life or even save the life of patients. So then there was in the 90s, there was a real soaring experience on tumor immunology, small molecules, antibody drugs and so on. So what was your take on this episode and on this period, and how did you go into the field of RNA?
Sure. So thank you so much for having me. And thank you for the kind intro. So I think we live in extraordinary times. And I went into the field because when I started to understand what I could potentially do for patients, because this is back at the time when we had data in a few miles and everybody thought this was a crazy idea, including myself. I decided to try to build this company because what it could do for patients if we could make it work safely, and it was very clear to us from a biologic standpoint, that you should be able to work in a vaccine, to work in cancer, to work in genetic disease, in autoimmune disease, because at the end of the day, as you know, as a doctor, you know, mRNA is what code all our proteins. And so it's the basic block of biology and life. So because of what it could do for patients, we took the risk to build a company.
And then the the you were starting with, with viruses. Your idea was to to work on viruses from the beginning, because now your shift is pretty much and I think a very good reason go into more into the cancer field. Cancer is, as we all know, it's one of the real big problems in the world. And it's something that is going to affect the elderly population as well. We know that most of 30% of the population is soon going to be 70 years and older in the Western world, and half of these patients are going to experience something towards the end of their life cancer. So there we need prevention and treatment. That was one of the big motivations.
Initially. Initially not the place where we wanted to start was rare genetic disease, because there was so much unknown on the mRNA technology. We wanted to take low biologic risk. So cancer has very high biologic risk because we don't understand all of it, like Alzheimer's. So we went into genetic disease. We still have genetic disease drugs. Then as we learn about the genetic disease making money safely, we stumbled on vaccines literally. And we realized we had vaccines that worked really, really well. So we developed vaccines. And then as we worked on vaccines for infectious disease, one of our clinicians who had oncology background, he trained at NCI with Rosenberg, Professor Rosenberg. And one day he saw data. We had actually in Sweden, where we learned for the first time that when you inject the mRNA in the muscle, it doesn't make the protein in the muscle, which is what we thought for many years of a company at the beginning, it's actually drained into your lymph node, going to your immune cells and make the protein in your immune cells. And so my oncologists look at this like this is really cool. This is how you would want to make a product for cancer go into the immune system. So we had to play with it.
It's a real direct antigen presentation which is coming from the lymphatic system as I mentioned, the lymph node. And that will boost the immune system.
Yes. And again you are a clinician. But for those in the room that are not oncologists, I think there's two fundamental big discoveries that enable what we do in terms of individualized treatment for cancer is one is we know today that cancer is a disease of DNA. There is a time where we didn't know that collectively. And the second piece is the critical role of immune system in eating or cancer. And so based on those two facts and the discovery in our hands that our mRNA injected in the muscle goes into your lymph node, you can basically we thought and now we know and we can talk about the recent data we presented on Tuesday. We thought that we could potentially retrain your immune system on how to literally go eat the cancer that it missed because, as you know, again, for the generalists in the room, we all have cancer all along our life. But if we're healthy, which is why going back to prevention in a minute or immune system basically sees that first cancer cell and eats that cancer cell, and it doesn't become cancer cells and for cancer cells and become a tumor. And so what we thought is, what if we could use mRNA to retrain your immune system to teach it what it missed and the data. And it would go to the data now because it's so exciting for patients. The data we showed on actually on Tuesday is that we had now a five year data on a phase two study where it was randomized, where people get either all treatment and katedra or just cathedra, which has many of you know, is one of the best immuno oncology drugs in skin cancer, melanoma. And we're at five years after surgery 50, there was a 50% improvement in recurrence free survival, meaning patients having no recurrence of disease or of course, no death, which is very significant, data. And so we're very excited for what it means for patients, because now we really have a proof of concept of this. And we are excited because we are in phase three in melanoma. We should get the data this year in lung. We're in kidney cancer, bladder cancer, gastric cancer, pancreatic cancer. So it's going to be a lot of data coming using the same technology. And what is really unique about the technology is that it's individualized. Meaning if Andreas and I get diagnosed next week in hospital in Zurich by the same doctor with melanoma skin cancer, we will basically take a biopsy of his tumor. We also take a blood sample so we can have a healthy cell from his body. We send this to the lab. We'll read all the three gigabytes of letters of his DNA, healthy with three gigabytes of letter of his cancer, and we will compare letter by letter or base by base, where are the mutations? And then we developed with amazing scientists from around the world, a software to select the 34. Because the current technology Andreas we can do 34 mutations because cancers have hundreds or thousands of mutations. We select the 34 mutations that we think. What is the best knowledge in the world today? Are the most relevant to your cancer? We make one RNA molecule that we stitch all those 34 mutations in one molecule, and we send it to your hospital. It's made just for you. So as I'm saying, if you had cancer and had cancer the same day, we'll make a molecule for Andreas. We'll make a molecule for Stefan in 30 days from from the biopsy. The moment we take a biopsy of your tumor in your hospital and the blood draw to the moment, you can have an injection in your muscle as you get at the same time as an infusion. That would be 30 days. And so we are very excited about the data. And we want to just keep scaling with our partner Merck or MSD in this side of the world. And I think it's really immunology 2.0. The checkpoints have been a beautiful product, saving literally millions of lives around the world since the first launch. But I really think this is individualization going further. And the piece that I think is understudied yet is what is the impact of lifestyle decisions during treatment? You've all heard about the fact that prevention for cancers is, of course, don't smoke, you know, eat a whole food, you know, do exercise, sleep. Because sleep is very important for immune strength. And immune system, as we discussed, is really important for cancer. But there's been some study done of course. But I think it would be interesting to run a study. What happens if you do a lot of exercise and eat healthy and even fast before treatment? And what will that do? Some some centers have said to do studies, but I'm a big believer that, again, all the things we're learning on how you can strengthen immune system combined with immunotherapy, yeah, we would have even better outcome for patients.
Yeah. I mean, there are a couple of studies, I mean especially in women with breast cancer. I was yesterday in the session for, for for women's health. It was very exciting to I mean they were talking also about Papillomaviruses and the vaccine and there was a focus more on women. But in fact, you know, there has been dealt with young men or adult men. And so ideally before you have the first infection. So I think this is a ping pong. And to just to make it clear, I think this is a transmission way. But viruses are in the focus in that sense, very, very effective. Now melanoma you said you mentioned bladder cancer. You mentioned kidney cancer and lung cancer. I mean, these are among the big fives, I would say, of the of the real threat. And there are these are cancers which have immunogenic potential. And you can detect, as you said, 34 antigens which are immunogenic, which will be recognized by the immune system. Exciting. So do you plan or do you think that there is a focus also for some viral induced cancer, let's say like we talked about viruses, Epstein-Barr virus, for instance, we talked about Papillomaviruses.
Yes. So as you mentioned, there are some viruses that we know scientifically drive cancer over time. Of course, HPV is a big one, and the HPV vaccine has been a godsend. And not only girls, as you say, but young men should also be vaccinated because they also end up with cancer. As we know, a lot of head and neck cancer in men are HPV induced.
And in women. And as a treating physician, I can tell you it's really it's not a nice story. But I have to say, I mean, you you find these HPV cancers in the oral cavity. Of course, I have seen it in the gastric cancer because, you know, sometimes it goes just the wrong route or even in the lung. And of course, we have it in, in the, in the digestive area, I would say. So it's really it's a threat. And sometimes it's very it's detected very late. And that is also something about prevention. So my focus would be if I would be, do more prevention. And I think the approach you're taking from the vaccines and from this strong immune power, that is something that really needs the needs an upscale and and, and scalability, healthy lifestyle. Eventually you have to add on something like, let's say unleash the immune system with, with, with some of the Keytruda, one shot, let's say. And to experience in this way would be possible.
Sure. So indeed, you know, some cancers are induced by viruses, the latent virus, those virus that once infected stay in our body forever. And of course, they create a lot of damage to the immune system. They create inflammation. All those things we know are bad and lead to cancer over time. You know, Seth is right here. He's done an amazing job at Gavi in terms of getting vaccines like look at hepatitis A and B, liver cancer can be prevented through through those those wonderful vaccine. Of course, we mentioned HPV. Another one that we're very passionate at Moderna is EBV. The Epstein-Barr virus. There's no vaccine against EBV. Some of you know of EBV through mononucleosis. Some of you might have had mononucleosis or your children. But if you look at EBV, once infected again, it's in your body forever. Again, a virus in cells forever is not a good thing. It creates a lot of damage, a lot of inflammation. It also creates immune exhaustion because the immune system is is wasting a lot of energy fighting those viruses instead of checking your cancer. And so we are very excited about EBV because we think we will prevent mononucleosis in teenagers. There's more and more data showing a link between EBV and multiple sclerosis as an autoimmune disease. Again, you go back to the immune system. So again.
Lymphoma forms of lymphoma.
There's many forms of lymphoma blood cancer that are induced by EBV as well. And so we have an EBV vaccine in phase two right now. Exciting. And we have shown already reduction of EBV viral load, which is a good, biomarker. In terms of that, we have a biological action. Of course, we need to run a phase three showing prevention of disease, mononucleosis. And ideally, once such a product will be approved for mononucleosis indication, we'll want to run a very large study with a government where we can get a lot of data, because you don't want to wait 20 years to get the data on Ms.. You want to do that in a few years because you do a very, very big 100,000 people study with a government to get that data to show can we prevent Ms.. We also have an EBV treatment in clinical trials. Right now we have the idea would be a bit like HIV, which is can you manage EBV viral load? And if you do, because we've shown we can do that in the clinic. If you do, can you reduce or prevent Ms.. Flares? This clinical trial is a phase two is ongoing in Ms. patients right now. But so the link of the role of viruses in our general health and in cancer is very clear. And I think the more we learn about viruses and the more we learn about preventing those infections, because clearly all the latent viruses stay in our body forever. CMV is the same thing. There's a whole list of them and they are bad for human health. So as you said, as we age, cancer is a disease of aging. So preventing those viruses to stay in our body would be a good idea.
Absolutely. So EBV is a drain of the immune system. That is very true. And it affects especially also very young people. And they might lose quite a time of their life. It takes a couple of months. So the benefit would be great if I had a wish. You know, again yesterday I was attending the women's health session. There is a ovarian cancer. And I think ovarian cancer, especially in some areas of the world, are totally under explored, under detected. And it mostly detected in the late stage, even in the Western world, of course. So that means that these women have to undertake some bigger surgery. Then there's chemotherapeutic drugs. Now there might be some biological drugs, some anti-hormonal drugs, some anti-folate antibodies and so on, and small molecules even. But still, we know that unfortunately, most of the women, more than 50 or 60% of the women are going to experience relapses in the first two years after diagnosis. And there would be something if I had a wish for women. Switzerland might be 500 new cases every year, Germany 5000. If you think of the rest of the world. And I was visiting India and I figured out in this rural country areas and rural hospitals and universities that this is a real threat there for ovarian cancer, if I have it, because you do this deep dive into, into a sequencing and, and you might identify new epitopes, this would be a real benefit for, for for half of the population of the world.
But actually a thing that was really interesting. And we're still learning because we only have a few thousand patients that have been enrolled in the different studies now. But the data we've shown at Asco, the big medical conference in cancer last year, is that less than 10% of antigen are shared, which was counterintuitive to all our scientists. They would have expected that maybe it would be 30, 40, 50% of shared antigen. And it kind of explains why a lot of people have tried, as you know, because I know you worked on those when you were in the lab. I've tried to do shared antigens. And I think because there's not a lot of shared antigen, there's some, of course, and because also it was protein based, not getting into the immune cells like the RNA technology. I think this is why some of them didn't work. That you make me think. Talking about ovarian cancer is the role of diagnostic. I think we are very fortunate in today's age, especially in the Western world, and we need to do more in the emerging world in how do we use diagnostic technologies to catch cancer early, because we all know that if we can catch cancer early, it might make the difference between living and dying. And if you think about there's a lot of tools that are available now, you know, from X-ray for lung cancer, of course, checking your skin mammogram for breast cancer following prostate cancer. But liquid biopsy is a very interesting field. And, you know, I used to run a diagnostic company 15 years ago before Moderna. And if you had told me liquid biopsy will become a thing, I would have said, I don't think so. And I would have been wrong, of course. So liquid biopsy, of course, is not yet for prime time in terms of it works for every cancer with great great sensitivity and specificity. But if you look at the data of tests like the gallery test from Illumina, I should say Grail. Now, since the demerger and other companies, the data is improving every year. And for those of you who don't know, liquid biopsy is basically the ability of seeing a little piece of DNA from cancer cells in your blood. And literally you can do a blood draw. So those products are already available in some countries. You can do a blood draw once a year. When you do your annual checkup, you know, you had one. Actually, it's two tubes of blood and they can start to find pieces of cancer DNA that is circulating in your blood that is different from your healthy DNA, and they can see it and start to identify cancer. And because of, again, technicality methylation on the DNA, they can guess from which organ is coming from. So they can tell you from a blood draw or you have prostate cancer. Actually it's not a very good one in terms of results. Or you have skin cancer or you have breast cancer. And so that's another piece I think that's very important in the field of oncology. With the progress we're making in terms of prevention through vaccines, through food, exercise, sleep, what we can do during diagnostic and doing regular routine tests. And I mean, we all know getting stage four pancreatic cancer is a very, very bad outcome. But if you can get pancreatic cancer, catch early because you do an ultrasound once a year, you can do a lot of things about it. And the ultrasound is not very expensive, unlike an MRI, which is very, very expensive. And so there's a lot of things, I think, that are happening at the same time in the field of cancer, which gives me a lot of hope for patients and for friends and families, which is if we do the right things in prevention and, and diagnostics and then all of those new treatments. And again, I'm excited, as I said, about the combination of treatment and lifestyle changes, sometimes I see people, they are literally on chemotherapy and they still have alcohol, even a glass of wine. It's like, this is not a good idea to have a glass of wine during cancer treatment. And as you know, there's a lot of data showing that if you do exercise, you have much better outcome of your cancer treatment than if you don't do exercise.
So we're talking about diagnostics and early detection. And of course the prevention with vaccines or prevention of relapse. Because if you think about you have diagnosis of cancer and then if you prevent the relapse then it's kind of a cure at some point, you know, if you have three, five years of, of disease free survival, then we could speculate. That's kind of cure. So I think there's a huge benefit for society if you ask why.
Sorry we were so excited on Tuesday with our five year data because when we shared a few years ago the three year data, a lot of people were still skeptical. But now we have five year survival data with a randomized study and the p value that was very, very low. This is starting to be real signals. And when you hear the patient stories, which is always so exciting, you hear the patient stories from the doctors like I tell you, yeah, the patient is cancer free now.
I can. So so how about availability? If you talk about I mean, we talk about Western world and emerging world markets. And so your companies are around the world. They are in the Western world. They are in Australia, I think in Asia probably. And so how is availability when it comes also to the speed of of of of, of, of establishing this treatment. And affordability. Sure. Can you say something about.
Sure. Of course. So the place where we are very lucky is unlike Car-T therapy. Many of you have heard about Car-T therapy, which, again, do wonderful things when people have access to them. Those are very expensive to make. So the price is very expensive because you use biologicals, which is basically blood from people, and because it's a sterile product, because you're going to reinject the blood into somebody. The safety bar is very, very high for manufacturing because if you do something wrong, you're going to give sepsis to somebody, which is a very, very bad idea. Obviously, the piece where we are lucky in the case of mRNA, I don't need blood from you. I mean, we take a little bit of blood to sequence your DNA, but we use your information to make the product. And so it's a cell free manufacturing process, so we can miniaturize everything and be able to have literally reactors that are smaller than this because we just make the product for you. Unlike Covid vaccine or flu, we make big batch to make products for everybody. And so by this miniaturization and all the robotics we have invested into the manufacturing process, we're going to be able to have a product at the standard cost of a cancer treatment. And we think over time we've scaled because, as you can imagine, the first product at a factory will be very expensive.
Or was it a little bit expensive?
But when you scale with volume, like in any technology, you can drive the cost down. And we are working with a team on what are all the things we can do in terms of improving quality, reducing human intervention to really take the price down. So we have a lot of robotics investment. There's a lot of AI investment in terms of quality control, because machines can look through big data very quickly. And so there's a lot of things we are doing to to try to really drive the cost curve, because we know and the team is highly aware that the more we reduce the price, the more we're going to have access. So when I go to a factory in Massachusetts that is just making this product, it's a dedicated factory. Because of individualization. I talked about cost all the time. I tell people not so that we maximize profit, because every time we can take $10, $20, $100 down the cost of goods, you have more access because you have access to more countries and more most countries. It's a standard healthcare system paid by the government. It's a very binary outcome. Either it's available or it's not available. So sometimes $1,000 of price difference, meaning everybody in the country has access or nobody has access. So it's very important.
So it will be possible also to purchase this therapeutics, directly at the company at one.
Point, I don't think directly at the company because in a lot of countries you cannot do that. And then there are also ethical reasons for us in terms of access. But but we're going to want to make sure this is as as widely accessible as possible, which is why we're happy to be partnered with MSD, because they have a very global network. They have been a very established company for a long time. So on the commercial side of the house, they have a lot of relationships that we don't have in a lot of countries, so that should help faster access.
And you have to just for me as an information, so the product, the RNA product that needs to be transported or stored in a special special condition is that.
So it's frozen product. But as you know, every hospital has that capability. There's already a lot of cancer products that are frozen. So it's not a problem.
Maybe for a for a quick rise of hands. Of course you have the possibility now to to put some questions and we will give some answers hopefully. Who may I ask, is there any doctor here in the room like me.
Right there?
Oh, hello. Welcome. And how about from industry and and from from, research eventually. Anybody decision maker or insurance companies or government decision makers, please raise your hand and let us know if there's any question.
So thank you for a fabulous conversation. Sorry, I came in a few minutes late. I guess question for the developing world is in the interim right now you're personalizing each one, which is the right way to go, no question. But that's going to be more expensive and it's going to take time. You know, what about standardized tumor markers for different diseases that could be done so we could mass produce them for those countries in the interim before we get your thing in every household.
Yes. It's a great question, Kev. As I mentioned a minute ago, we were very surprised when we saw the data from the studies that less than 10% of the antigen were shared, but it was still 10%. And so what we are developing now and some of them are getting to the clinic, is shared antigen cancer vaccine, where it's exactly the same technology. But instead of individualizing the antigen it's a shared ones because those, as you say will be available first right away. You don't have to wait a month to get access, because we don't have to make it for you. And it will be a much different price point because we make the same product for everybody. So we can use actually the scale of our infectious disease vaccine business because similar technology. So we have a few products in the clinic there. And as we keep on learning more about shared antigen, we will get more products in the clinic.
Any other question? Yes, please.
Thank you. I am a futurist. I'm a political scientist, so I'm a doctor, but not one of your lot. But which is why I come from this from the societal point of view. So I think it's terrific, everything that you're describing. But I remember in 2020 being very surprised because I'm vaccinated. For me, that's not even a question, but a lot of societal resistance. And so of course, this is more my field than yours. But would you have any ideas on how we can actually pave the way for the social acceptability of what I think sounds like a truly groundbreaking innovation that's coming?
Sure. So I think.
I work for NATO Defense College. I'm Florence, thank you, thank you.
So I would love to address opinion to of course. But I think for treatments people behave very differently. Many of you know, and as he said shaking his hand because he's done amazing work around the world to help people with vaccines for prevention, but those are given to healthy people. I think when it's about cancer and you are thinking about losing your life and your loved ones, I think people think very differently about risk reward ratios. I think during the pandemic, we were so focused on getting the products out in a really short amount of time, as you know, that I think we underestimated the psychological element and we do not explain enough. So I feel bad about if I could go back in time and use that lesson. I don't think all of us in the field spent enough time explaining that there were no corners cut on safety. We ran a 30,000 phase three study like we would have done that in normal times. What was extraordinary is that because everybody was working together, we will talk to FDA sometimes twice in the same day in normal non-wartime if I want to talk to FDA, I have to ask for a meeting. They have 30 days to give me a date way in the future to have a meeting. So think about the time wasted compared to the Covid times to meeting the same day. So there's a lot of things like this that were wonderful during the Covid time that we didn't spend enough time explaining to population. And then of course, we have seen what happened with social media and so much misinformation. That is really, really sad to see in today's world because some people are getting hurt. Look what's happening in terms of less vaccination across all age ranges around the world. If you look at this season, as you know, it's a very bad flu season. And look, we don't provide a flu vaccine yet. So I'm not conflicted on flu right now. It's done in the US 10%, despite one of the most terrible flu seasons, and most people don't realize that, for example, flu or Covid or RSV, those respiratory viruses, when you have them for too long, you damage your mucus by coughing too much. What happens when you damage your mucus? You have bacteria going down into your lungs and you get pneumonia. And if you didn't get and there's a lot of good vaccine for pneumonia, if you don't have pneumonia vaccine, you can go into septicemia. And that cascade. People don't think about a simple flu or simple Covid can lead some people to get hospitalized and dying of septicemia. And it's tragic when you see this happening every day. Look what's happening with kids with measles. It's just so sad that so many people work for so long to get those products because again, if you had a magic wand, you would want us to protect those things that will happen in the future. Because as we know, the best medicine is not to get sick. But I think having the technology of mRNA that has been identified around the world by some people, used in cancer, use in multiple sclerosis, use in autoimmune disease, and people starting to see in their families through their friends, in their community. The positive impact, I think will change the pendulum.
Yeah, I would agree. There's definitely no no question about the positive impact. If you think about even the intensive care units, respiratory units, where they have now after vaccines, they have less children to, to, to be intubated, to be on the respiratory, stress. And that is one thing. And for cancer no doubt, I mean nobody would reject any, any help in any vaccine which is going to prevent we talk about prevention, prevention of relapse, which is prolongation of life and quality of life. And this is very individual. And I think everybody would have to decide. But I'm sure that 99% of the people out there would decide to, to take this to, to grab this chance and have the support and the treatment. So thank you very much. Very exciting.
Yeah. And there's another piece about your question about the future, which is people being curious and understanding their body. I think we're in a new space and I think technology is helping. I tell my friends, most of my friends, they know more about how to use their phone and how their phone works and how their body works. You can break this and walk into an iPhone for maybe $1,000. You can get another one of these, but for thousand dollars you cannot get another lung, another liver. And I think all of us have to really take care of our health to get educated. And a lot of people did biology last time in high school and are a bit scared of biology. But again, you can use a lot of tools to learn and a community to really own your your health because it's your most important asset.
So thank you very much. Stefan, thank you very much. I think there's a great future. We are looking forward to have hopefully a session next year where we're going to report on, on the on other entities and two entities to to be treated. Thank you very much for your attendance and looking forward to have a good day.
Thank you.